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Post by goderz3 on Apr 7, 2020 10:04:28 GMT
Wow, there's a lot to take in there and that's the just from the lower leagues, just imagine if league football got cancelled,the FA would have a job on their hands trying to sort that. It's a minefield with no easy solution.
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Post by unknownquantity on Apr 7, 2020 18:17:18 GMT
I totally agree that it is a complex situation with no easy solution and there are some definitely some cogent financial arguments and some valid points are made.
However my own view is that if these part-time clubs were to resume activity as and when it is fit to do so the following problems exist.
1) Clubs would have to add extending player contracts to the existing budget which has already been fully stretched and having their fundraising activities which support the club severely restricted in recent weeks.
2) Players would be devoting time to playing football at times when they may have already made plans for.
3) If football returns to action then presumably so do businesses who have also suffered greatly in the lockdown. I expect it would be harder for employees to take time off for football and for some players restoring their business to full health would be a more immediate concern than football.
4) For lower league teams the income from winning F A Cup games is a very favourable sum and I think that being able to enter next season's competition would be of great value to them.
5) Clubs need to have a reasonable pre-season if only to get their pitch ready for the next season.
6) I think teams would be likely to need larger squads to complete the season due to reduced player availability and there would be a lot of clubs needing to recruit.
7) Three clubs have already gone to the wall and I expect others will follow. You will have to decide what to do with their remaining games. I think there is likely to be a lack of homogeneity in the results which could distort closely contested divisions. People may remember when Weymouth's circumstances led them to fielding a team of kids and losing 9-0 to Rushden and Diamonds.
There are probably a few things I can add to this, but I think the most important thing is we try to find a solution that satisfies all parties even if iit looks hard to do. I think though that the teams seeking promotion from the lower leagues may benefit from natural wastage.
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Post by southcoasthero on Apr 7, 2020 18:39:37 GMT
Also dont forget any club that has furloughed its staff, it is illegal for any of those staff to work. Im thinking about the groundsman. He can not maintain the pitch or surroundings so grass could be a foot high when this is over. If he cuts the grass out of goodwill both himself and the club are committing fraud against the government.
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Post by oldgroaner on Apr 9, 2020 6:03:15 GMT
The groundsman at any football club would therefore NOT be furloughed for the very reason you mention southcoasthero, maintaining the pitch is absolutely vital, as much, if not more so than any CEO running a club.
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Post by spitfiresteve on Apr 9, 2020 14:02:27 GMT
Briefly read that as groundsmen being furrowed - given the condition of some of the pitches earlier in the season understandable...but will the season plough on?
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Post by eastleighexile on Apr 9, 2020 21:01:01 GMT
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Post by spiritofeastleigh on Apr 10, 2020 7:55:54 GMT
Football has looked at this all wrong. This season must be concluded, and in the case of non league there is no reason why next season can't be extended to the end of June if necessary instead of April. Therefore this season could resume as late as August to finish it. The major issue to this is player's contracts which is why the governing body has taken the easy, lazy route to solve the problems, to just wipe out the entire season. Personally I would wipe out the 20/21 season rather than this one because teams like Barrow, Harrogate, Notts County, have earned the right to achieve promotion this season, same goes to teams like South Shields and the amazing run of Jersey Bulls, with 27 straight wins. Get this season completed, see what month we are at and then see if season 20/21 can be completed by June 30th 2021. Probably you might have to abandon for one season all cup matches, which just might get us back to an end of May finish instead. Any problem can be solved but by taking the easy route the governing body just aren't that bothered. If after the current season concludes and it was too late to begin next season league programme, you could reinstate all the cup tournaments and perhaps have a one off league special of 12 teams in each, playing 22 matches for a trophy. That gives much needed revenue to clubs, and if you made each league to virtually North and South, that would also save money on travel for the clubs as well, overnight stops would not be required, and also no midweek games, thus saving on floodlight costs and helping travelling supporters to contend with Saturday travel only to support their team. Wiping out this season is the wrong decision, if you did what I propose it would mean everybody would be happy to resume on a level playing field with promotion and relegation from season 2019/20 sorted to start afresh in August 2021/22, is that not the right way to do things?
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Post by eastleighexile on Apr 10, 2020 11:17:05 GMT
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Post by eastleighexile on Apr 10, 2020 11:29:21 GMT
Spirit has the right spirit, lol! But I'm not sure you can do the things off the cuff, as suggested. 'see what month we are at and then see if season 20/21 can be completed'. Too many 'sees' if you see what I mean? There has to be a definite plan, and removing one potential FA Cup and one FA Trophy tie isn't going to solve much time-wise. In effect, a patchwork quilt of a season is going to cause issues even before it gets off (or is that on?) the ground. Promotion and relegation from regional leagues for a truncated campaign might work, but you're offering a tournament that probably won't appeal in the same way a league campaign does. Will either produce the required revenue to run a National League club? I doubt it. Look at the current gates for FA Trophy ties. Other savings are minimal in comparison with a home gate against the likes of Notts County. By the way, the 'vote' has yet to be published
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Post by spiritofeastleigh on Apr 10, 2020 14:02:48 GMT
OK eastleighexile, I take your point a mini type league won't appeal as its not competitive to many. So how about this. Lets say we begin to conclude this season in August, we'll probably have to allow players coming and going as normal over the summer months, new contracts and so forth, but finish the 2019/20 season. If the 2020/21 season cannot be concluded before say the end of May, then possibly we are back to wiping that season out. However, clubs still need games and competitive ones at that. It would take a lot of time to work out fairly, but what about having champions leagues type groups for The FA Trophy? Say six teams, ten games, top two progress into next group, perhaps eight games, top two progress to knock out stage? You could do similar with FA Cup matches, thus all clubs would have 20 competitive games at least, others 28 or 36 prior to straight knock out games to conclude the winners and runner ups. Surely its worth a look at? Then everything starts properly again in 2021/22 with perhaps Barrow in League Two, South Shields in National League North, ect ect, that way the winners rightly rewarded, the relegated rightly sent down. You can't argue about season 2020/21 if it never got started can you, just skip it, simples.
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Post by unknownquantity on Apr 10, 2020 15:53:17 GMT
I think that it is a good idea to ask the clubs for their views, but are the National League trying to persuade clubs to end the season now?
I do get the issues of Barrow, Notts County and Harrogate being in the running for promotion, but with Bury's demise there should be one vacancy in the football league whatever happens.
I think as far as the F A Cup and F A Trophy is concerned I think you could get rid of replays, but both these competitions have a large number of entries and these competitions can be a valuable source of finance for the teams from the lower league teams who enter them. One of the magic moments of this year's F A Trophy has been Halesowen emerge from the early rounds and reach the semi finals.
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Post by eastleighexile on Apr 10, 2020 17:03:49 GMT
FA Cup - yes for finance; not so much the Trophy, even for the likes of Halesowen. TV steps into the FA Cup where there can be fees of £110,000, as there was for the lads against Crewe. No FA Cup comp in 2020-21 could be very costly for some. As for Spirit's idea of 'skipping' a season, I'm not sure that's different to voiding this one?
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Post by unknownquantity on Apr 10, 2020 18:18:29 GMT
Looking at the prize money available for the F A Trophy I reckon that Halesowen have earned around £35000 for their F A Trophy run and even if they play and lose their semi final they get another £5000 which is useful money for a step 4 club.
Even if they agree to terminate the National League season I do not think that they can totally ignore the league table when deciding how to fill the vacancy left by Bury, and there will be other vacancies that are likely to arise especially as three clubs at levels 3 to 6 have already gone to the wall and others will probably follow.
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Post by tenacres on Apr 10, 2020 19:42:23 GMT
Hmmm. I think they would have to be very carefull if they go for a "lets void the season but there is a spare space and we'll give it to Barrow" situation.
I think it seems like they are jumping the gun a bit here. Guessing they are keen to get things "sorted" before the end of April when a number of player contracts are up. I assume the majority of player contracts in NLN & NLS south run to the end of April, where the majority of player contracts in the NL I would think would run to the end of June. Though I'm sure a fair few still run out in April.
Given that Step 3 down has been voided (AFAIK) then presumably there is no relegation from NLN or NLS this season?
Obviously whatever promotion or non promotion we have has to fit in with League 2s relegation as well. It would be a bit odd of the national league to act first and then league 2s relegation has to fit in with what the national league has decided with promotion.
Can imagine most national league clubs may well vote to void the season (including us?) as it may bring quicker financial clarity. Though obviosuly there are a few at the top end of the table who I'm sure would be keen to finish the season, as we would have been last season.
The Trophy - now come on, surely that *Should* be finished. Its a compeition which has had 200+ games so far and needs just 5 to finish it, or 3 if they make the semis one legged. Feels against natural justice to write the trophy up when its almost done, that would be like abandoining a game after 87 minutes.
Still positive news on the £££ front:
"The board has received £2m of funding from the Premier League, which will be sent out to clubs next week, with £58,333 to be given to each National League club and £13,636 each to those in the North and South divisions."
Speaking purely on the EFC front, I would imagine the finances of this situation is the main thing that the club is keen to sort.
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Post by unknownquantity on Apr 11, 2020 7:20:11 GMT
I think there are several options available for filling the place vacated by Bury, even f a decision is made to end the season and the clubs may have some ideas on this. However I do believe that any club doing so should have at least been in the running for promotion at the time hostilities ceased.
In the initial statement from the F A regarding levels 3 to 6 they did indicate a desire to keep the F A Trophy, even if one of the semi finalists play at levels 3 to 6 where a decision has already been taken on their league campaign. Winning semi finalists in the F A Trophy earn £15000 and losing semi finalists £5000 so there is some money at stake here.
I do also believe that for some clubs financial clarity is an important consideration. A lot of clubs especially at the lower levels have lost Saturday fixtures due to Storm Clara, Storm Dennis and the wet weather and seen events that have been set up to raise money for the club cancelled.
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