|
Post by tenacres on Oct 22, 2017 21:11:14 GMT
|
|
|
Post by rocky on Oct 23, 2017 12:56:49 GMT
good that hilly has an experienced number 2, especially useful when we are struggling like we have been
|
|
|
Post by newman123 on Oct 25, 2017 10:05:02 GMT
good that hilly has an experienced number 2, especially useful when we are struggling like we have been Did you watch the game that was on TV. The team talk Hessenthaler just sat in the corner and didn't say a word, whilst Hill walked around hands in his pockets facing the ground talking. Not exactly inspiring.
|
|
|
Post by hantslondoner on Oct 25, 2017 10:37:39 GMT
During yesterday's match, however, I think he spent more time on his feet than RH did. Not sure if he said much, though....
|
|
|
Post by rocky on Oct 25, 2017 21:19:27 GMT
he has been around the game for a long long time and has years experience managing in the league, i think he knows a thing or two, now is his and hills chance to shine, prove the doubters wrong
|
|
|
Post by willk on Oct 25, 2017 21:32:29 GMT
David Moyes, Steve mclaren, Roy Hodgson been around for years and lots of experience. Means nothing. Abject management pair.
|
|
|
Post by westendspitfire on Oct 26, 2017 2:47:08 GMT
So are you now saying Moyes, McClaren and Hodgson are crap managers Will?
|
|
|
Post by willk on Oct 26, 2017 7:57:30 GMT
No, they’ve had success but a lot of failure and are now way past their best. Just saying ‘being around’ doesn’t mean much in football
|
|
|
Post by hantslondoner on Oct 26, 2017 8:21:21 GMT
Willk, I'm going to break our forum 'no communication agreement' because I find this subject interesting, and I happen to agree with you on three managers you name above, so I would like to ask you a question ('without prejudice') - in what way do you think these managers are past their best?
Is it that football has moved on in the last few years and that means that they are no longer successful as they were? Or is it the players, and the way they respond to motivation, and these managers are not able to relate to them? Or something else?
And then, down to NL level, how does that apply to RH?
|
|
|
Post by willk on Oct 26, 2017 8:41:55 GMT
I would genuinely say their tactics, rhetoric, contacts motivational powers are probably not as useful in 2017 as they were a decade ago. Players may also not have the respect for them (as we probably wouldn’t if our new boss was a failed ex at another company) Hill is stuck in a time trap in the past. The league has moved on and he hasn’t. It happens to all managers even the great Brian clough in his last season at forest.
|
|
|
Post by hantslondoner on Oct 26, 2017 8:51:06 GMT
Thanks for your reply - how do you think the league has moved on, though? Is it playing style (I agree our long ball tactic looks pretty outdated, for example) - do you think NL players expect different things from a few years ago (RH was pretty successful in this league only 2-3 years ago)? What do you think makes players give respect to managers now?
Some of the managers you named were previously successful, but have not been successful recently. The press still seems to respect Moyes, Hodgson, et al, but maybe in football, even more than business, you're only as good as your last job.
|
|
|
Post by westendspitfire on Oct 26, 2017 8:54:33 GMT
That is an amazing statement, you have no idea on any of the things you have stated above and could not have any idea unless you were very close to the individuals you are talking about. The measures you are using to judge them all as failed are the same ill informed measures you are judging RH by, go and talk to the man and try and get a better all round picture. Hodgson is still managing at the highest level in the game and it would not be a surprise to see the other two you have mentioned get positions at this level again this season, despite the fact they are competing against the best in the world on a completely slewed playing field. Using Clough as an example is again priceless, there were definitely other factors at play towards the end of his career. As for 'being around in football' not meaning much, have a look at how many young managers get a chance, being around means an awful lot!
|
|
|
Post by boyatthood on Oct 26, 2017 9:19:04 GMT
That is an amazing statement, you have no idea on any of the things you have stated above and could not have any idea unless you were very close to the individuals you are talking about. The measures you are using to judge them all as failed are the same ill informed measures you are judging RH by, go and talk to the man and try and get a better all round picture. Hodgson is still managing at the highest level in the game and it would not be a surprise to see the other two you have mentioned get positions at this level again this season, despite the fact they are competing against the best in the world on a completely slewed playing field. Using Clough as an example is again priceless, there were definitely other factors at play towards the end of his career. As for 'being around in football' not meaning much, have a look at how many young managers get a chance, being around means an awful lot! Neil Warnock is now 70 and has been in football for 50 Years. Cardiff currently are second in the Championship. His 'being around' certainly counts for a lot. Some managers may fade with age some don't. Warnock is certainly known for for his player motivation and even at his age he's on his feet directing and shouting. Touch line observations of our management team don't inspire unless you count punching the dugout as motivational.
|
|
|
Post by willk on Oct 26, 2017 9:31:12 GMT
Warnock-absolutely,great motivator with so much passion. I wish Hill showed as much passion on the touch line rather then just sitting there. As for experience pointless debating the pros and cons of it, for every guy whose hung around for 20/30 years I can name you Eddie Howe, Lee Johnson and Thomas Christensen at Leeds all doing rather well. Best management I’ve seen in our league the cowley boys last season
|
|
|
Post by blackie on Oct 26, 2017 12:37:26 GMT
I think Willk has a very strong and logical argument on this subject and it's not an "amazing statement".
Hodgson is a solid manager in many ways but only ever achieved out of the country and at WBA here. McLaren is a busted flush only did well at Boro with money to spend and his major achievement was a great title win at Twente, since then he's failed to deliver. Moyes over achieved at Everton for the resources available and at Preston, but again since then his star has been very much on the wane. Clough was never at the high's he had achieved at Derby and early in his Forest career once Peter Taylor left, sadly he went one season too many and took Forest down.
Warnock's record at Div 2 level and below is an example of a manager that has consistently delivered, it's a shame when he's been at the top it never quite works out there. However if you want a guy to get results at Div 2 and below his record is outstanding.
Therefore Willk has a justifiable argument to state whether he thinks the Hill/Hessenthaler combo is up to the job.
|
|