davec
Youth Team
Posts: 39
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Post by davec on Mar 16, 2016 7:31:47 GMT
Is it me or does the pitch look rock hard now? After about 5 minutes I heard their left back asking if he could borrow the linesman's trainers...
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Post by hantslondoner on Mar 16, 2016 8:32:57 GMT
I think Ross needs goggles because he dived for the ball in the penalty area twice near the end and got a faceful of sand/dirt.
Looks to me as if we have learnt how to play on this pitch, and that should bear fruit in terms of lots of points at home for the rest of the season. Yemi looked dangerous, both of our defence lineups looked pretty solid - a good team effort, even if IMO some individuals weren't at the same standard as Saturday. It was disappointing that Tubbs elected to pass to Beano on that break near the end rather than shoot - a striker confident and in form would surely have elected to shoot.
Last night we got a couple of early goals and held Bromley fairly comfortably for the rest of the game. Not great entertainment, but considering they had W5 D1 of their last six, a great result. I think CT will settle for a great result rather than great entertainment given some of the comments we've had on here.
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Post by topmiler on Mar 16, 2016 8:47:04 GMT
Not pretty but it got the job done.
I don't mind the 'hoof & run' long ball up to the front, but we've got to have someone up there with height to win the resulting header. I don't think playing Yemi and Tubbs together can do this just hoping they can win the second ball from a defenders dodgy clearance.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2016 10:02:54 GMT
Good win & an important 3 points, not the best of games to watch, but that's what you often get at the back end of the season playing on pitches that we cannot play our passing game on.
So my take on the performance.. First half - was all long ball, from the kick off, Will Evans punted one of his 70 yrd diagonal balls to the far corner flag, where Yemi was up against a monster of a CH in height. He's not going to win those. Will & Parts continued to do this all game. Equally, every time Flits had the ball he punted it long to the same right hand corner. About 3 times, Flitney's punts went straight to their keeper. That was pretty awful to watch. However, i strongly suspect that was the managers tactic to hit long, then expect the Bromley defence to win the first header, but for us to then go and win the second ball and retain possession high up the field. IT WORKED!, as i said it wasnt pretty, but we won second ball time after time in the first half, with Jai, Payne, & Coulsen so often getting to it first. That then allowed us to retain possession high up the pitch & we were able to keep playing Yemi through when he made good runs, or ran through teh defence on his own with the ball at his feet. He tore their defence to pieces at least 6 times in the first half. So it wasn't pretty, but was a tactic that i accept worked well & was tactic we got 2 goals from, and IMO, was a tactic that it looked like we would get more joy from in the second half.
Second half - Due to an injury to Turley, we brought on Beano? ok....a CH is injured so bring on a striker? We shuffled the pack and moved Parts into CH and pulled Coulsen back into the RB spot. Ok, i can see that, but the bit i was baffled by, is that to incorporate Beano upfront, we pulled Yemi into right midfield, where we know he is ineffective. Yemi was causing all kinds of trouble first half, so we drop him back? That for me was a massive tactical mistake. Personally, i would have left Beano on the bench, but brought on Midson to play wide right, so that we could then continue with the tactic of smashing the ball long to the right corner flag, Midson could have joined the attack wide on that side, to flick the ball centrally into Yemi & Tubbs, or we could have just continued working off the second ball if Midson lost the initial header. Before we even kicked off for the second half, i turned to my son and said that's it, it will stay 2-0 and we will not have another shot on target. I was right, we did not have a single shot on target in the second half, and we turned our very good attack into a completely ineffective one for 45 mins. It is plain to see for everyone, surely? John Mc - i would like your opinion on this substitution and how it effected us second half? - I'm not picking on you, i would just like to know if you saw it differently to how i saw it?
Other than that, we got the win which is all important, but make no mistake Bromley were poor and although they tried to break us down second half and attacked more often, because we had given them the initiative to do so, by no longer retaining the second ball high up the pitch, they never really looked like troubling Flitney all night.
I put myself into their managers head 10 mins into the second half, and all i kept saying to myself was, blimey they are giving us a chance here, their front 2 are no longer causing a threat, so my back 4 can now relax and enjoy the game & help push us up the pitch, instead of us being on the back foot.
9 more games like that will do, but i dont see the the long ball tactic catching many other teams out. The Bromley defence in the first half were happy just to win first ball, other teams will work a lot harder than Bromley to retain the second ball aswell. My concerns is, if we do not win the second ball, i can't see how we will create many chances? Yemi has to play down the middle, and neither Tubbs or Yemi can play with Beano. We are risking being able to score goals, to incorporate a player who ensures we barely have shot a on target in a lot of games. I feel like i'm picking on Beano, so i want to make it clear, he is a very decent striker for this level, but if we intend to play in a 4-4-2 formation, then we simply do not have the partner for him at the club, and we have better pairings who are proving that they will get you more chances and more goals, if we stick with them. So please stick with them and stop the incessant use of a striker that isn't working well with our formations and tactical play. If we play Beano & Tubbs together, i see more 90 mins games that will reflect our second half performance last night, If we do that, we are not going to create many chances or score many goals & we will definitely not keep winning games.
I'll move my Traffic light Play Off chances from Red to Amber....We have an outside chance, but the manager needs to be strong and not just pick the same old faces for the sake of it. He got it right first half, but got it very wrong second half, although we did remain hard to break down, so it wasn't all bad second half, but we could have made it so much easier and gone on to score another 2 if we had left Yemi up top & employed the same tactics.
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Post by hantslondoner on Mar 16, 2016 10:26:41 GMT
I agree with your second half assessment of last night's game, but since we were 2-0 up at half time and Bromley were showing themselves to be pretty ineffective up front, I took the substitution as an attempt to tighten things up further and close the game out. This was the team's third game in a week, as well.
We did not employ the same tactic against Chester - we kept attacking, and brought on Midson. But then we were only 1-0 up and needed to get a second to feel comfortable.
Against Woking the sending off forced our hand but I felt we were still better than them with 10 v 11, so when it was 10 v 10 we could open up more and really go for the win.
I'm confident that will work again against Welling, against better teams I'm also not sure. But apart from Tranmere we haven't got a top 10 team to play at home now. Having got this style working effectively, what tactics we will now employ away will be interesting.....
And I still ask the question - why can the combination of Beano and Tubbs not work? It doesn't seem to, but on paper it still seems to be the best bet. Having said that, playing long to use the speed of Yemi yesterday and keep the pressure on Bromley up at their end of the pitch looked good to me - and it contributed to our first goal.
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Post by grumpy on Mar 16, 2016 10:40:49 GMT
Sattsy you're right, the change at half time killed our chances of getting more goals. But looking at the bench there weren't many more options available to replace Turley. I half expected a change to 4-3-3 with Coulson and Harding coming forwards but that didn't happen very much!
In the first half we made chances, in the second we just defended our lead. Not exciting but it got the job done. Big decisions now for the Gaffer about his next starting 11, He's got 10 days now to think about it at least!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2016 10:57:24 GMT
Re Tubbs & Beano - My Take on it.
Tubbs Strengths All through his career the stats show that he works best when working alongside a target man who can win headers (flick ons) and targetmen who hold the ball up, to then lay it off for someone to play Tubs through on goal, or a target man who can hold it, turn and play Tubs through himself. He is a very good finisher from anywhere in the box. defenders are wary of his reputation so are already thinking defensively. His movement is excellent. With the right partner at this level, he will get you 20-30 goals per season (if starting most games with the right partner).
Weaknesses He does not play well with his back to goal He is not a hold up player He does not win many headers He does not ruffle defenders with brute strength or aggression. He's not suited to running the channels He cannot play in the lone striker, so he limits you to playing 4-4-2.
Beano Strengths He works his socks off and his main attribute is in hassling defenders into mistakes and winning free kicks in and around the area. If he has the ball at his feet with sight of goal he will shoot. He never gives up He gets 15-10 goals per season
Weaknesses He doesnt win many headers so isnt suited to a long ball game. He plays for too many free kicks and often ends up getting frustrated when things dont go his way. He tends to come out wide and work the channels, meaning we now only have 1 in the box - he should be in the box! He doesnt hold the ball up well, so we cannot work off him. He chases the ball back into midfield areas, again leaving us light upfront if we win the ball back, so it disrupts our midfield and our balance to break into a quick attack. He's not a great passer, so if he does win the ball high up the pitch, he's unlikely to be able to pick out Tubbs out with a great through ball.
So when you put them together as a pair:- We have 2 players who don't win headers. 2 players who are not at their best with their backs to goal. 2 players who do not hold the ball up well. 2 Players who play too far apart (one goes wide and drops deeper) leaving the other isolated upfront. Neither have great pace. Neither have shown an ability to pass to each other (usually because they are too far apart). Tubbs wants narrow through balls or flick on's to burst onto. Beano wants to wrestle a defender 18 yards out, and then get a distant shot away. Neither will look for each other, because they know the other will not be in support within 5yrds of each other.
= They do not compliment each other well as a pair and depending on how we are playing, our patterns of play will only ever suit one of them, but not the other. So they are rendered ineffective as a pairing.
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Post by tottonspitfire on Mar 16, 2016 11:08:48 GMT
I have to say i thought bringing on Beano after Turleys injury was very strange . IMO Greener could have filled in at CH as he has done before . That would have allowed us to continue to play the same way as we did in the first half . Either that or midson should have come on instead of Beano , the Tubbs , Beano combination just does not work IMHO .
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Post by nobadspitfire on Mar 16, 2016 11:33:32 GMT
Paul, have to say I agree with your comments on this thread regarding the second half last night & MT/JC strengths & weaknesses. It would be very interesting to get the views of the players in question regarding their ability to play with each other oops, together as a striking partnership.
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Post by grumpy on Mar 16, 2016 11:37:25 GMT
It appears that they want to make it work. But late on in the game Tubbs should have shot, and probably scored. But opted to play it inside to Beano. I struggle to see them as an effective pairing. I like the Yemi / Tubbs combo, but we need to change the way we play for that to work. Coulson seems to read well what they need but to do that he needs to stay in midfield and not fill in for defenders.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2016 12:15:44 GMT
Paul, have to say I agree with your comments on this thread regarding the second half last night & MT/JC strengths & weaknesses. It would be very interesting to get the views of the players in question regarding their ability to play with each other oops, together as a striking partnership. Yes it would be very interesting to get the players take on it. It would be even more interesting to hear the managers take on it and why he appears to want to keep going with those 2 as his preferred pair when all are fit. I think if you ask the players, they will just be kind to each other and will say they will do whatever the managers tells them to do etc. Beano is never likely to agree that he should make way for a Tubbs & Yemi partnership is he.. And don't get me wrong, Yemi & Tubbs are far from an ideal partnership either, but they have shown that the team creates many more chance per game with a MT/YO partnership, and Yemi is proving every game that he causes havoc with the oppositions defence, which will always create space for others, or allow his pace and tenacity to get him through onto goal and able to get a shot away, sadly, shooting on target is not a great strength of Yemi's...but at least he is getting us into goal scoring opportunities. I dont see that happen too often with JC/MT. The first half pairing showed us the way (although getting it to them wasn't pretty), the second half pairing showed us how ineffective we are with the wrong partnership upfront. This has been very obvious for a long time now, and i just don't get it. So i would like to know (genuinely interested) why the manager feels MT & JC is his preferred partnership & want to know what he feels they give us going forward? What is he seeing that i (and quite a few others) dont see? I'm not digging Toddy out & i'm certainly not expecting him to come running to explain, but its strange one that is difficult for many of us to understand?
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Post by hantslondoner on Mar 16, 2016 12:41:42 GMT
Appreciate the analysis on Beano/Tubbs as individuals and as a combination.
Since Beano's been here, it seems to me that he's been used as a target man, long balls being frequently pumped up for him to win. Varying success.
The analysis would suggest he's not suited to this role. Finding him out on the wings, working hard, suggests he's not been fulfilling that role all the time either.
I wonder if both RH's and CT's mindset is that he IS a target man, and until that mindset is changed we will carry on as usual. The ghost of McAllister persists..... Was Ross Lafayette a target man, by the way? Or was he more a Beano-type of player?
I agree with others that Midson's been badly underused this season.
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Deleted
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Bromley
Mar 16, 2016 16:00:38 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2016 16:00:38 GMT
Cant believe Bromley never used May up against Evans. At which point did it not make sense to go more direct ?
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Post by back4more on Mar 16, 2016 16:23:15 GMT
From Sattsy
"So i would like to know (genuinely interested) why the manager feels MT & JC is his preferred partnership & want to know what he feels they give us going forward?
What is he seeing that i (and quite a few others) dont see?
I'm not digging Toddy out & i'm certainly not expecting him to come running to explain, but its strange one that is difficult for many of us to understand?"
Surely Paul, CT has been starting his recent matches with Matt Tubbs and Yemi up front so I'm not sure how you think that he "feels MT & JC is his preferred partnership" unless I am missing something.
Re the choice of half time substitute for Jamie Turley, like most people who have covered this on here, I would guess it was possibly down to tactics but as always there might have been other considerations to do with the pitch or whatever. Yemi for example seemed to be in a bit of discomfort for some reason part way through the first half. Also it's not a bad idea to be unpredictable in the changes you make. I wouldn't have had Greener coming on at CH as per one suggestion because I preferred to have him available to come on fresh a bit later at left back or left wing to help stop the opposition chancing throwing too many players forward.
Not a bad idea to give James Constable the second half to keep him up to pace, let Yemi have a breather out wide and keep the competition up for striking places. I would agree to the worry that there didn't seem to be more of a threat than there was but the after match interview explained the mind set I think. The main thing I would like to get from JC a bit more is to put their defenders under a bit more pressure when they're trying to bring the ball out. I think as the rest of the season unfolds he can still get a good few goals for us and it's just a matter of how CT decides to use him. I have a feeling that he is more of a threat when Jack Midson is on the pitch but can't quite put my finger on why. Ultimately it's about more than just the ideal strike partnership or the right players in centre midfield. It's about getting the overall combination and balance right for each game. Unfortunately with the current list of absentees the options might be fewer than we would like.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2016 16:43:20 GMT
ok thanks, John. Todd only started Tubbs & Yemi in the last 2 games, because Beano has been injured. Once Beano is fully fit i.e. our next game, i suspect he will drop Yemi and revert to the Beano/Tubbs partnership, and i just cannot see why he prefers that partnership upfront, when the Yemi & Tubbs pairing has reaped so many more goal scoring chances, not only for those 2, but for the likes of Jai aswell. Jai never had one chance in the second half, yet had at least 3 shots and scored 1 of them in the first half, because of the space that Yemi was creating for him, by pushing the opposition defenders back. For me, Beano doesn't push them back, in fact its quite the opposite, they get close to Beano, try to beat him to the ball, they are not threatened by his pace or ability to get in behind them. Where as they are scared stiff of that happening up against Yemi. So Beano just ends up wrestling with the CH's 25 yards from goal. So in that situation its impossible for Jai to move up the pitch and find space, because he can never tell whether Beano is going to win that wrestling match and give him the ball, and even if Beano does win it, by then Jai is standing right next to him in an over crowded space, so its difficult to then play anyone in or create a goal scoring opportunity.
Time will tell.
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