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Post by spiritofeastleigh on May 17, 2020 7:47:34 GMT
Well, seems quite a few clubs in League Two are suggesting that they merge League Two and the National League together to create two new leagues, League Two North, and League Two South, which financially makes a lot of sense, with one automatic promotion and one play off winner each season from each into League One. I don't think the current National North and South would change either as many would not afford to go National. All makes sense, and we'd be in the football league. Only issue is whether all League Two clubs want another 24 clubs sharing their TV revenue. So, self interest and greed against common sense to all survive in the long term.
LEAGUE TWO SOUTH.
Eastleigh
Yeovil Town
Sutton United
Dagenham & Redbridge
Solihull Moors
Barnet
Boreham Wood
Wealdstone
Bromley
Torquay
Havant & Waterlooville
Woking
Dover
Aldershot
Exeter City
Cheltenham
Colchester
Forest Green
Crawley
Newport County
Orient
Stevenage
Southend
Northampton Town
LEAGUE TWO NORTH
Notts County
Barrow
Stockport County
York City
Hartlepool
Chesterfield
Kings Lynn
Harrogate
Wrexham
Halifax
Port Vale
Bradford
Salford
Grimsby
Walsall
Cambridge United
Carlisle
Oldham
Scunthorpe
Mansfield Town
Morecambe
Macclesfield
Bolton
Tranmere
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Post by spitfire91 on May 17, 2020 8:57:59 GMT
Think this is a great idea but as you said I don't think league one teams would agree. Attendances would increase and costs for teams and away travelling fans would decrease. Would open up more away fans to get to games. I would have two automatic spots in each league with a fifth promotion spot for playoff winner. Usual 3rd to 6th in each division making the play offs with one of games then south can north play off final for the fifth spot. Their is already four that come down from league two anyway. Then have three down from each league two division meaning national league north and south have two automatic spots and a playoff spot. You'll see costs decrease and revenue increase. A number of attendances this season have been higher than a number of league two attendances.
Fingers crossed common sense prevails.
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Post by goderz3 on May 17, 2020 8:58:30 GMT
Yeah I think this could have room for a lot more discussion. I'm not sure the national league would be in favour of this proposal because of the loss of revenue but as you pointed out this is going to be based on a financial forecasts, hopefully with the view of keeping every clue running.
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Post by hantslondoner on May 17, 2020 13:20:18 GMT
IMO, looking at the lineups, League Two North would be waaaaay more attractive to watch than League Two South.
But I can understand why it's being considered. And as has been said before, many more of those teams would be part-time.
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Post by unknownquantity on May 17, 2020 17:51:59 GMT
I think that regionalisation makes sense, but I would think a more likely way of doing it would be to split League 1 and League 2 into League 1 North and League 1 South in a similar manner to what they did prior to 1958. Even before the lockdown Bolton and Bury had problems and I expect that there are clubs holding their own in this division who would welcome the reduced travelling costs. The top division of the National League could then have North and South Divisions to again reduce the travelling costs.
I am not sure I necessarily agree with the forced relegation of Ebbsfleet, Maidenhead, AFC Fylde, Chorley, Tranmere, Southend and Bolton. In the cases of Chorley, Southend and Bolton who are cast adrift in their division it is probably fair enough, but if Tranmere win their game in hand they move level on points with AFC Wimbledon. In the National League less than 10 points separate 15th to 23rd and some teams have 10 games to play. Ebbsfleet in 21st were in good form at the time play ceased had won their last two matches which were away fixtures at Hartlepool and Halifax.
As I said in the last paragraph I would be reluctant to relegate teams who have a fighting chance to beat the drop. In 2014/15 we were well into the month of April and with seven games to go Leicester were bottom of the Premiership. However they obtained 16 points from their remaining games to stay up and the following season were Premier Division champions.
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Post by spiritofeastleigh on May 18, 2020 7:22:14 GMT
You could very well be right Malcy regarding League One and Two going North and South, especially as then they would not have another 24 clubs sharing their TV revenue. However, League One clubs get a lot more TV revenue than League Two so they might not want to split that with League Two in a North/South set up, again self interest and greed. That's why I believe League Two see a deal more likely to split North and South with the National League. I think it is certain League Two will split come what may, they need to reduce costs, they know this has to be done.
There will be many different issues to sort out, one would be The FA Cup as you can't have an additional 24 clubs in the First Round proper. An easy answer would be in the first new season all 24 from National League would play in the 4th qualifying round of the FA Cup, and every season thereafter the bottom 12 teams in both North and South would play in the 4th qualifying round including newly promoted teams from Non League. In many ways this would generate even more interest in the central part of each division as the season draws to a close to be in the top twelve for that exclusive slot of a 1st round financial pot in the FA Cup the following season. Which would be great, the top teams fighting for promotion, the bottom teams fighting relegation, and the middle ones have something to play for as well, there would be very few dead games at that time of the year. That would be quite a selling point to the TV companies. It would be nice if say a package was done with Sky, BBC and ITV to share coverage, having two games a week live, and revenue would also increase at the gates. It's a no brainer for common sense if football at the lower end is to survive.
As for those being relegated, I get what you are saying Malcy, especially Ebbsfleet who were certainly picking up but where do you draw the line in that the season has officially ended. If Barrow and Harrogate are promoted, there has to be relegation, it would be unfair on Wealdstone, Havant, York and Kings Lynn otherwise. Football has to look at its own soul and save itself for the greater good in the long term despite some getting pain at this moment, but they can recover and live another day just like everything else that has been affected by this pandemic.
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Post by taylov on May 18, 2020 7:36:20 GMT
I remember the last days of the old 3rd Division North/South in the 1950s. There was a massive discrepancy between the 2 leagues in favour of the South which saw a number of larger clubs at that level compared with the North. However go back 20 years are the exact opposite applied. Such inconsistencies settle themselves over time.
The real problem is I can see little in the proposal that would persuade the existing FL clubs to support it.
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Post by spiritofeastleigh on May 19, 2020 7:14:36 GMT
I think Tony this has been suggested by League Two clubs, the idea to merge with the National League. If League One also voted then probably to idea would be thrown out as they would be thinking of the TV revenue. Most League Two clubs are fighting to survive due to this pandemic, I don't see why League one should block it for their own self interests. The FL must act with common sense to save a number of their member clubs from going under, that serves no purpose and will harm communities that see their football club as a vital part of their community. Do we want clubs to disappear? No we don't and if creating a League Two North and South is the answer then let it be so, lets remember where Bournemouth were ten years ago or so, and where they are now, lets remember Portsmouth did the same, and Brighton, all these clubs were on the brink but survived. League one clubs have no right to take those hopes and dreams away by self interest. It matters not a bit to me if Eastleigh remain in a National League or becomes a League Two South team, what matters, and it should be the only thing that matters if you are a true football fan, is that clubs survive to continue to serve their communities and if merging with National League achieves that aim it is one that all football should support.
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Post by taylov on May 19, 2020 15:02:54 GMT
Personally I'm all in favour of anything that improves the chances of seeing football at the 'Lake next season.
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Post by unknownquantity on May 19, 2020 20:00:18 GMT
The idea I had in mind if the Premier League restarted was to run with a 22 team next season when there could be two more relegations than promotions to restore the numbers to 20 the following season. That way teams would know the score and it could possibly in some cases make teams feel more comfortable about completing the current Premier League season especially with neutral venues being suggested. That way it should make it easier to promote lower down the pyramid while reducing the number of relegations and natural wastage has already resulted in a few clubs dropping down the pyramid and there are likely to be more.
I am also not sure whether as many division 2 clubs have gone into administration as League 1 clubs.
I also see that Kevin Watson has left his post as manager of Ebbsfleet.
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Post by spiritofeastleigh on May 20, 2020 7:26:25 GMT
I did hear the Premier League will consider, if the league restart does not get completed due to players getting the virus (quite possible) going with no relegation and allowing three teams to be promoted. It means six clubs would be relegated next season, alongside having 6 extra games to complete the season, 44 games, with the suggestion for one season only the league cup is suspended. It would be a very fair compromise, and one wonders if all the other leagues could follow suit?
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Post by unknownquantity on May 20, 2020 23:50:51 GMT
I was thinking in terms of the Premier League operating with 22 teams next season as the old Division 1 used to have so having 2 more promotions than relegations (either 2 or 3 promotions and respectively 0 or 1 relegations) and having 2 more relegations than promotions the following season.
Actually leagues with 2 divisions could say have 1 promotion or 0 relegations and then have 1 more relegation than promotion the following season. If the Combined Counties League did that then Jersey Bulls could still be promoted even if natural wastage did not create an opportunity. I think it is possible that teams in their current division would think they had a better chance of winning the title next season if the Bulls were not in their division.
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