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Post by blueandwhite on Aug 31, 2019 20:16:36 GMT
So what do people think then? Its been 3 and a bit years since the referendum and its been a massive talking point ever since and doesn't show any signs of slowing down? There are arguments on either side of course.
What about the current situation. Is Boris Johnson playing a shrewd game or is he bluffing?
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Post by thelake on Sept 1, 2019 17:24:27 GMT
Think what a lot of people get wrong is that leaving the Eu would not really change any of the problems that this country faces
The idea that Boris Johnson or nigel garage are somehow championing the causes of ordinary working class people is ridiculous. They are narrow minded people who care only about themselves and their careers, not even the parties they represent. Too many people have been taken along by this rhetoric. Keep in the Eu I say abs concentrate on fighting the real issues facing this country
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Post by back4more on Sept 24, 2019 10:14:36 GMT
It always astonishes me when anyone from this area advocates remaining in the EU. Many thousands of jobs and future career opportunities for our young people were lost at a stroke when the European Central Bank (the EU's bank) gave Ford (a foreign company) a massive soft loan to build a new Ford Transit plant in Turkey (outside the EU) and transfer Transit production there from Eastleigh (in the EU) with the resulting closure of the Eastleigh plant. Many thousands of jobs were lost, not only at the Ford Eastleigh plant but also at the many British companies both local and further afield which supplied parts, goods and services to the plant. Anyone who wants to understand why the EU's bank would help Ford to close Eastleigh and move Transit production to Turkey might be interested to consider the major multi billion euro contracts which Ford would have awarded to French and German contractors for the construction and equipping of the new plant in Turkey. Britain suffered permanent loss from the EU's action but much of the EU bank's money ended up going to French and German companies. You can bet your bottom euro that the European Bank would never assist a similar transfer of production out of France or Germany. I guarantee it.
At a completely different level, if any of us want to do a bit of sea fishing, and line fishing is of course a very popular pastime in this area. the EU Commission has declared that thou shall not catch more than one sea bass per day per person. That's better than some previous years though when you weren't allowed to catch any. In the meantime, French and Spanish trawlers are allowed to continue to hoover up sea bass in large quantities in British waters. These are just two examples of the many negative aspects of our membership of the EU. In more general terms it's worth remembering that EU law holds precedence over English Law. Every year the EU makes more law and its laws will eventually cover every aspect of our lives. The European Court of Justice has the last say beyond our Court of Appeal and our so called "Supreme Court". Its decisions also override any laws set by our own Parliament. The Houses of Parliament become, therefore, less relevant every year and within many of our lifetimes will, if we were to remain in the EU, become nothing more than a tourist attraction.
EU Law is written by the European Commission which comprises of representatives of member countries who are appointed, not elected. Each country has one representative or "Commissioner" and the Commission is headed up by a similarly unelected Commission President which recently until now has been Jean Claude Juncker from Luxembourg. The UK has one "Commissioner" - the same as each other country including tiny States such as Malta, Estonia, Cyprus, Luxembourg etc. So each of those tiny States has as much influence on the writing of EU Law as does Britain with its population of 60million plus. And worse, France and Germany hold sway and influence over the law writing activities of those tiny States' Commissioners in return for granting them economic favours.
I'm afraid I see the EU as a giant protection racket within which we are forced to contribute billions of pounds every year just to be allowed to trade with the EU on their terms and with minimum disruption. Whichever way we leave, as we must, we will experience some disruption initially but in the long term we will be masters of our own destiny and the EU member states will want to keep good relations and supply lines open with the UK in their own interests.
The British politicians and mandarins who have been seeking to disrupt Britain's exit from the EU are those who are motivated by self interest. That has been political opportunism in some cases and in others, personal advancement. Guy Verhofstadt, the EU's number one federalist, has even been singing the praises of John Bercow for future senior EU office. Yes that's the same John Bercow who has been trying to frustrate the Brexit process in Parliament at every turn.
My parents' and their parents' generations were prepared to give their lives to save us from foreign rule. All we had to do was vote.
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Post by thelake on Nov 2, 2019 19:55:36 GMT
Blimey man. That is real face in palmstuff. What planet are you on? It’s not about foreign rule. It’s about working together within an organisation for mutual benefit. We are one of the big players anyway and the Eu helps us on the world stage. All this brexit cr@p will just isolate us. There will be no more control. If anything we’ll get more immigrants. We’ll have less money for the nhs. We need a decent government to look after this country and the people in it, not one that creates division. Time to give labour a chance
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Post by viking800 on Nov 4, 2019 21:34:13 GMT
You have to be a particular age to remember a time before Edward Heath dragged us, primarily from personal ambition,(what politician is not motivated by that?) into what was then a Common Market (NOT a political union). Trade agreements are fine but political "union" is quite another matter. In Europe there have (since the break up of the Prussian Empire at least) two dominant movers, France and, in particular Germany. Prior to our joining in the 70's we had made a number of applications, all of which had been vetoed by the then President of France, Charles de Gaulle. Heath wanted to join so badly I think the terms he agreed must have been biased towards the Big Two which has since resulted in the imbalance in the financial arrangements now being hilighted. We have been forced to trade more with the EU due to the "asset stripping" policies such as the quoted Ford Transit farce, but the EU also proved no protection when Rowntrees bid for the Swiss firm (The Swiss have never been members of EU!) Nestle was turned into a successful counter bid simply because the Swiss have a law forbidding any foreign take overs!! We could certainly have done with a law like that here but you will be hard pressed to find a fully British owned large business now (at least in manufacturing) It is a sobering thought that Germany, having lost 2 wars and being rebuilt by British & American money now owns BMW which, of course, stands for British Motor Works. The EU is the elephant in the room; give the British that space and we will find a new balance with the World, but on OUR terms. Needless to say, I will be voting Brexit Party!
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Post by back4more on Nov 18, 2019 13:18:02 GMT
Blimey man. That is real face in palmstuff. What planet are you on? It’s not about foreign rule. It’s about working together within an organisation for mutual benefit. We are one of the big players anyway and the Eu helps us on the world stage. All this brexit cr@p will just isolate us. There will be no more control. If anything we’ll get more immigrants. We’ll have less money for the nhs. We need a decent government to look after this country and the people in it, not one that creates division. Time to give labour a chance No facts then thelake to support your derisory comments? How can you tell us it's not foreign rule when the laws are written in Brussels and the policies are decided in Paris and Berlin and ratified in either Brussels or Strasbourg (the European Parliament moves regularly between the two cities to appease the French at enormous cost of which the British taxpayer bears a disproportionately large burden). I think viking800 has written an eloquent and reasoned summary of the realities of the situation, far better than I could have done. We will have more money for the NHS when we are able to stop paying into the EU, and for everything else we might want to do. We will also be able to deport who we want to deport and set our own policy for the management of immigration once we are no longer subject to EU law.
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Post by thelake on Nov 18, 2019 21:47:41 GMT
No we won't. the boris deal olbliges us to eu law in an almost identical way to which we are now. the main difference is we now will no longer have a seat at the negotiating table. we will still be following all the eu rules and have no say in them. What about VAT? will that change now we are not in the eu? course not. it does not matter where the meetings are, although there are regularly key EU meetings in London and the rest of the UK. If we actually want to deport people we need more border guards and customs staff, this government has made drastic cuts in this area. Do you think leaving the EU will mean the French are more or less likely to enfoce strict border control out of France at Calais? Not a tricky one that is it? On immigration; what is actually likel is that we get less desirable immigrants that are skilled trades or professions and work for things like the NHS & we'll get more illegal immigrants. we will also get more non EU immigrants from places like India and africa. Does that sound good to you?
a couple of recent quote from boris for you:
"My ideal world is, we're there, we're in the EU, trying to make it better."
Leaving would mean... “embroiling the Government for several years in a fiddly process of negotiating new arrangements, so diverting energy from the real problems of this country – that have nothing to do with Europe.”
wise up, the man is playing you like a good un
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Post by back4more on Nov 18, 2019 22:12:17 GMT
Sorry but that's drivel. Give us examples of the ludicrous statements you are making. I doubt if you are able to give a single example to support the nonsense you are posting.
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Post by back4more on Nov 23, 2019 11:56:00 GMT
Now that Corbyn has declared the Labour party as neutral on Brexit, that has simplified the situation. If you want to remain in the EU and be ruled forever from Paris and Berlin through their puppet regime in Brussels, vote Lib Dem. If you want to leave the EU and get back this country's sovereignty which was fought for and died for by the people of this country, vote Conservative. If you don't care either way vote Labour. You will have no idea what you are getting because they won't tell you.
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Post by thelake on Nov 24, 2019 20:55:24 GMT
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Post by back4more on Nov 28, 2019 15:02:24 GMT
That link is to the Brexit Party's recent propaganda statement. Sadly it is true that the talking only starts once the UK is out of the EU. That has always been at the insistence of the EU who have refused to negotiate on trade terms before we actually leave. And that would be the case irrespective of which Party is in charge. (They even prohibited our country from reaching any post-Brexit trade agreements with other countries.) So in deciding who to vote for, we just have to decide if we want Brexit or not. Brexit clearly will not happen if Liberals have the deciding votes in Parliament. Brexit probably won't happen if Labour is in charge. Brexit certainly will happen under a Conservative government. The transition period will be as protracted as the EU can manage to make it. That's why we need a Conservative government which has full control over Parliament through a good majority. That level of control and authority will allow the government to negotiate strongly with the EU without being continuously undermined by negative blocking and filibustering tactics which have been the main feature of the lame Parliament which has now been disbanded for the election.
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