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Post by westendspitfire on Aug 15, 2016 7:51:33 GMT
I know it makes us all feel warm and fuzzy when we see the Union flag raised high and the National Anthem blares out on foreign shores saying how good we are but:-
How is what we do with lottery funding really any different to what the Russians did with their state doping?
I know that it is all within the rules and doping isn't, but morally, is it really acceptable to be competing on a completely different playing field to the majority of other countries?
Does this not in some way reflect on the integrity of the sport/competition?
Really brought it home to me when athletes are talking about the sacrifices they make, having to sleep in oxygen tents, getting up early etc, etc, where do they think the money for this comes from? Do they not think working people have to get up early as well?
The rewards are there for all to see in that their passion in life is their full time occupation and to achieve a high Olympic standard will mean financial rewards long beyond their career.
So what sacrifices are really being made and how much of a surprise is the success when it is funded to incredible levels and athletes from other countries do not have the facilities to compete?
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Post by loudnproud on Aug 16, 2016 9:48:33 GMT
Why is it when we do something right. People moan.
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Post by westendspitfire on Aug 16, 2016 10:59:04 GMT
Not moaning just an opinion and i just don't agree that we are doing something right.
We have a government making cuts everywhere, schools and nhs are underfunded yet we can spend millions to send a dancing horse and its very wealthy rider to Brazil in return for headline news that said dancing horse has become the best dancer in the Olympics.
If that's doing it right we need to have a look at ourselves
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Post by cobbler on Aug 16, 2016 15:00:50 GMT
As far as I see it's similar to professional football (or any other professional sport), where the big clubs with lots of money buy the best coaches, players and resources.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2016 20:33:53 GMT
There is a world of difference in giving someone the best tools & environment to do their job to the best of their abilities, and cheating the system by artificially improving someone ability with the use of illegal substances.
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Post by back4more on Aug 29, 2016 8:16:29 GMT
If another country such as France or Germany had achieved what Britain has done, most people would be complaining that we are too naive and not professional enough in our sports development, and that we need to follow the example of more successful countries.
The 2012 Olympic success, and the games spectacle which this country was able to put on, raised our image around the world to our nation's benefit. The success in these games will make it clear that 2012 was not a fluke and hopefully will widen interest in sport - kids really need to see that cycling, swimming, rowing, hockey, taekwondo, gymnastics, diving, triathlons, even riding etc are all cooler than Nintendo or whatever.
And westend, as for education and the NHS, the mantra trotted out about government cuts is nonsense as there haven't been any in those ring fenced areas. The health and teaching authorities need to learn how to develop, use and mobilise their human resources better than they do rather than wasting squillions every year through hidebound top heavy inefficiency and resistance to change. And in case anyone isn't aware, I think that most of the funding for these sports comes from the lottery and not from public funds so they don't take anything away from education or health anyway..
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Post by westendspitfire on Aug 30, 2016 8:34:29 GMT
If another country such as France or Germany had achieved what Britain has done, most people would be complaining that we are too naive and not professional enough in our sports development, and that we need to follow the example of more successful countries. The 2012 Olympic success, and the games spectacle which this country was able to put on, raised our image around the world to our nation's benefit. The success in these games will make it clear that 2012 was not a fluke and hopefully will widen interest in sport - kids really need to see that cycling, swimming, rowing, hockey, taekwondo, gymnastics, diving, triathlons, even riding etc are all cooler than Nintendo or whatever. And westend, as for education and the NHS, the mantra trotted out about government cuts is nonsense as there haven't been any in those ring fenced areas. The health and teaching authorities need to learn how to develop, use and mobilise their human resources better than they do rather than wasting squillions every year through hidebound top heavy inefficiency and resistance to change. And in case anyone isn't aware, I think that most of the funding for these sports comes from the lottery and not from public funds so they don't take anything away from education or health anyway.. Brilliant! You really believe that the NHS and education are ring fenced and haven't had any cuts, I'm guessing you read the Daily Mail?
There is a fair proportion of the funding that does come from the taxpayer, I've seen figures quoted between 25 and 40% it is not all lottery funded and there may be a view held in certain places that the lottery is merely a vehicle to further tax the poor anyway.
I'm sure people would complain if we didn't win lots of gold medals but my point is that the funding goes to the elite, those with dancing horses and long rowing boats have never been short of a bob or two and the funding method passes a large proportion of the money to those who already have it and not nearly enough to those who really need it.
If the Government took the view, that seems to work with Olympic funding, that by employing the best at above the market rate and used this in both the NHS and Education for all then perhaps we would have other things to be proud of, instead they want to jump on the back of the elite athletes and will now give them further awards that will send more public funding their way
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Post by back4more on Aug 30, 2016 16:49:48 GMT
I did say most not all of the funding comes from the lottery. What I should have probably said is that the lottery is the biggest individual source of funding. Public funds are allocated as part of the Department for Culture Media & Sport budget. It's all very clearly documented and has nothing to do with any particular newspaper - I'm not sure at all what your Daily Mail comment is about. I don't know the exact details of how UK Sport (the body administering the relevant investment) allocates its funding but again the info is there to be found, including at this link:- www.uksport.gov.uk/our-work/investing-in-sport/how-uk-sport-funding-worksI totally disagree with your inference that the most successful Olympic sports are elitist. Owning your own dressage horse is out of reach of most of the population but virtually all of the other successful sports are fully accessible to anyone who lives anywhere near a rowing club, a velodrome, a swimming or diving pool, a karate or boxing club, a gymnastics hall, a sailing club or whatever other venue is required - just the same as is the case in most other countries. Aspiring athletes and/or their families do need to make financial sacrifices to get into the big leagues but that doesn't mean they are rich, just dedicated and of course talented. As for your comments re NHS and education cuts, no there haven't been any cuts in the total central government budgets. There is just a lot of waste and mismanagement. You began your thread with claims about cuts westend and have now repeated them but without any evidence. |
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Post by westendspitfire on Aug 31, 2016 8:02:55 GMT
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Post by back4more on Aug 31, 2016 10:32:28 GMT
The BBC report is talking about cuts within the health service, not cuts in total government funding of the health service. The NHS seems chronically unable to manage its budget effectively. It has often been found to overpay for most of the products it buys because of incompetent purchasing. It employs non medical people whose jobs ceased to exist a long time ago. It carries the cost of expensive admin buildings and equipment which are heavily underutilised. It fails to forecast its future medical staffing requirements and therefore cannot plan its recruitment and training effectively. Consequently it has to rely on recruiting from overseas, often plundering the human medical resources of poorer countries to attract nurses to the UK who were trained by those poorer countries to help their own sick people, and paying eye watering agency fees for foreign locum GP's and hospital doctors. Worst of all the NHS continues to pay six figure salaries to its senior managers who in many cases couldn't manage a party in a brewery. I think one such lady has just been sacked following the deaths of a number of patients but immediately reemployed by the NHS in an advisory position on the same salary. Presumably they will have to cut another few nurses jobs to fund her replacement and both their gilt edged pensions. The Independent article is about the change in the way 6th form colleges are funded. The total government funding here remains the same, according to the information buried at the end of the article. Whenever you change the way in which funding is allocated there are winners and losers. As for sailing and rowing they are totally accessible to people living within reach of rowing or sailing clubs. You do not have to own a boat! Re your comment about "where the participants went to school" I have no idea where but if their Olympic success entices more ordinary kids into those sports isn't that a good thing? |
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Post by bushfire on Aug 31, 2016 19:42:32 GMT
Very well argued back4more. Totally agree with your comments. Westendspitfire, if you are going to use quotes from an independent source, I don't think
you should rely on the BBC or the Independent Newspaper to provide inbiased information. If ever there was a waste or abuse of public money, I can think of no better example than the BBC.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2016 12:05:30 GMT
Let's not make out that the government couldn't afford to do ALL of this. It has enough money, we could also help the NHS by not selling chocolate,fizzy drinks, cigarettes, kebabs but we don't.
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Post by dave on Sept 7, 2016 0:47:15 GMT
If another country such as France or Germany had achieved what Britain has done, most people would be complaining that we are too naive and not professional enough in our sports development, and that we need to follow the example of more successful countries. The 2012 Olympic success, and the games spectacle which this country was able to put on, raised our image around the world to our nation's benefit. The success in these games will make it clear that 2012 was not a fluke and hopefully will widen interest in sport - kids really need to see that cycling, swimming, rowing, hockey, taekwondo, gymnastics, diving, triathlons, even riding etc are all cooler than Nintendo or whatever. And westend, as for education and the NHS, the mantra trotted out about government cuts is nonsense as there haven't been any in those ring fenced areas. The health and teaching authorities need to learn how to develop, use and mobilise their human resources better than they do rather than wasting squillions every year through hidebound top heavy inefficiency and resistance to change. And in case anyone isn't aware, I think that most of the funding for these sports comes from the lottery and not from public funds so they don't take anything away from education or health anyway..
I'm sure people would complain if we didn't win lots of gold medals but my point is that the funding goes to the elite, those with dancing horses and long rowing boats have never been short of a bob or two and the funding method passes a large proportion of the money to those who already have it and not nearly enough to those who really need it.
Westend - In my spare time I work for a childrens charity as a Rowing Coach - please feel free to come in one Sunday morning with me & show me where I or the 30 kids I train are "not short of a bob or two" when I don't have the resources to get them all on the water at the same time |
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Post by westendspitfire on Sept 10, 2016 3:55:09 GMT
I'm sure people would complain if we didn't win lots of gold medals but my point is that the funding goes to the elite, those with dancing horses and long rowing boats have never been short of a bob or two and the funding method passes a large proportion of the money to those who already have it and not nearly enough to those who really need it.
Westend - In my spare time I work for a childrens charity as a Rowing Coach - please feel free to come in one Sunday morning with me & show me where I or the 30 kids I train are "not short of a bob or two" when I don't have the resources to get them all on the water at the same time That was the whole point of my post Dave the elite get all the money and you are left struggling to get people on the water. Instead of paying millions for a gold medal the money should go to those who really need it. |
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Post by dave on Sept 10, 2016 16:56:19 GMT
Westend - In my spare time I work for a childrens charity as a Rowing Coach - please feel free to come in one Sunday morning with me & show me where I or the 30 kids I train are "not short of a bob or two" when I don't have the resources to get them all on the water at the same time That was the whole point of my post Dave the elite get all the money and you are left struggling to get people on the water. Instead of paying millions for a gold medal the money should go to those who really need it. The way it was worded I took it to mean that rowers & horsey people had loads of money so why give them more |
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